Shri Datta Swami

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Posted on: 30 Jun 2015
O Learned and Devoted Servants of God,

Dr. Nikhil asked: “If space itself is God's awareness, how can God's wish charge it? How was the wish generated? God's awareness must precede space. God's awareness should come first. His wish should come second. Space should come third. Then His wish can enter space but His wish being not different from Him means that God Himself enters space. It becomes a case of homogeneous entry. Without homogeneous entry, evolution of creation can't happen”.

Shri Swami replied: First I shall give the background of the topic in detail so that your questions can be answered clearly at the end.

First Part:

1) God wished to create this world. This means that God created the wish in the beginning. Awareness and wish are not at all different. Even if one feels that they are different, it does not matter since both come under the headline of creation only and not the Creator. Creation means both the process of creation and the product of creation. By this, we must know that this world (creation) as well as the process by which it is created are only works of God. Both are not entities to stand by the side of God and bring the numbers like first entity, second entity, third entity etc. There is only one entity i.e., God and is called as absolute reality. Everything other than God is only relative reality and is the imaginary work of God. God wished to create this world because He was bored without the entertainment. This state of boring was before the wish to create this world as said in the Veda (Ekaki Na Ramate). This state of boring also indicates that the process of thinking took place in which He felt that He was bored. Does this not mean that the awareness existed even before the first wish to create this world? This point also supports advaita philosophy, which says that God is awareness and hence the state of boring and subsequent state of thought to create this world appeared. Awareness is known to us and is proved to be a specific function of inert energy functioning in a specific nervous system. When you decided that God is awareness, this background of awareness must also be accepted. This leads to the conclusion that God was a human being like us having nervous system and other systems like respiration, digestion, etc., which generate this inert energy. This brings not only limitation to God but also establishes the fact that the awareness is eternal and also its supporting materials like matter and inert energy are also eternal. This problem comes because we have applied the logic to the creator of this world even before its creation. This clearly indicates that we are fundamentally wrong. All this objection vanishes if you accept that God is unimaginable (as established by the Vedas, the Gita and the Brahma Sutras) and therefore, His works are also unimaginable. Now, we can say that God is unimaginable and hence the process or work of thinking is also unimaginable and hence God need not be awareness to think or to be another material to do any other corresponding work of that material. God can burn anything in this world and due to that God need not be energy or fire. We should apply the failure of the worldly logic to God to understand His nature and not the logic of this world. This negative approach is recommended by the Veda to understand the inherent nature of the absolute God (neti neti). Now, you should not argue that the first wish to create this world also was the unimaginable work of the unimaginable God in which case the creation of anything other than God did not start. This first wish or awareness is the first imaginable product of this world, which is as good as the worldly awareness. The composition of this awareness can be understood with the help of the worldly awareness. Hence, this first wish is also the specific work function of the inert energy only. But the absence of matter (nervous system) does not allow this first wish to be the specific work. The nervous system was absent since the matter was not yet generated. Yet, this first wish was the specific work of the inert energy and this point stands as the unimaginable work of God at the background of this first wish. This means that neither we can see the unimaginable God (cause) nor we can see the process or background by which this wish (specific work of inert energy called as nervous energy or nervous pulses) is created. We have seen the appearance of this first wish, which is the form of inert energy or space suddenly and we have to proceed with the evolution of the world from this imaginable point along with the imaginable chain of generations of other imaginable items of the world. A scientist starts with this imaginable point. A philosopher goes into the background of this first imaginable point (first wish).

Creation is Real to Soul as Soul is Part and Parcel of It

2) In any wish of a person, the object is something else other than himself. In the awareness the object actually is himself. Here himself means an imaginary reflection of himself thought to be awareness, so that the subject and object are separated. In any process the subject (knower), the process (knowing) and the object (knowable) must exist as the triad (Triputi). God wished to create this world, which is imaginary to Himself, but real to the individual soul. The reason is that the individual soul is part and parcel of the imaginary creation. The imaginary world of the human being is also created from such wish appeared in it. Here, the word 'wish' is used since the object, which is imaginary world, is different from God (subject). If it is not different, entertainment is not possible due to the absence of the triad and the Veda says that God created this world for His entertainment, which is a process.

3) In the beginning of the creation God wished. This is the Vedic statement. This means that wish is the first creation of God and the process of creation started by this wish. Even in the case of a human being, the wish to create an imaginary world itself is the starting point of creation of the imaginary world because the subsequent imaginary world is only an extension of this wish. The Veda also says that the first creation is space (Akasha). The Veda again says that the first creation is inert energy (Tejas). This means wish or inert energy or space is essentially one and the same and hence all the three can be first creation. These three items may be different in the forms. Gold lump (or called as gold) is inert energy. Gold chain is wish. Gold ring is space. We have already understood through the science that gold lump (inert energy) and gold ring (space) are one and the same. Space is subtle form of inert energy, which is invisible. Light (electricity, sound, magnetism etc.,) called as Tejas is visible form of inert energy. Hence, space and inert energy are one and the same. Science says that space bends along the boundary of an object. If space is nothing, its bending is meaningless. Moreover, science also says that galaxies are generated from space. If space is nothing, such generation is not possible.

4) In the case of human being, the awareness can be separated from wish based on the difference in the objects. Awareness can be called as soul and wish can be called as the activity of the soul. This is a superficial classification. Otherwise, in both, the subject, the process and the object exist as common nature. In the case of human being, we say that the awareness is aware of itself. When you see the pot, the reflection of the pot is printed on the brain by the activity of neurons. The picture of the pot is known to the awareness. We define awareness of itself is self or general awareness. In the case of awareness of awareness also, an imaginary picture of awareness is presented on the brain as object. Now, if you say the word awareness, the picture of the pot should not be there since in the process of awareness, the object is itself and not the picture of the pot. You cannot maintain both awareness and picture of pot simultaneously because two objects cannot co-exist in single triad. In the deep sleep, the awareness as well as the wish disappears. When the picture is printed on the brain, the brain becomes aware of the pot. Here, you can use the brain as the subject, the process taking place in the nervous system as the process and the picture of pot as the object. Thus, you can have the triad as brain, nervous system and the picture of the pot. But, if you take the brain and nervous system as one equipment functioning in the process itself, the process of knowing and knower become one and the same. In this case, the subject and the process are identified as one entity. In the deep sleep, the brain and nervous system do not function and hence the knower and the process of knowing disappear simultaneously. In such case, you cannot say that the knower (soul) is eternal. It may be more permanent than the immediately perishing body as said in the Gita (Na hanyate hanyamaane sharire). But, it is not as eternal as God. The relative eternity of the soul with respect to body is proved in death. But, the deep sleep taking place everyday reverses this concept by showing that the body is relatively more eternal than the soul, which dies everyday in deep sleep (Atha Chainam...). However, this daily born and daily dead soul becomes eternal with respect to the body after death and goes to the upper worlds by taking a new energetic body. The conclusion is that neither separation of knower from the process of knowing nor the relative eternity with respect to body can establish the soul to be God.

5) The differences in the philosophies have come because of the different components of the first item of creation (the wish or awareness). The background of this first wish is not another imaginable item like the mud in the case of pot, but the unimaginable God happening to be cause of the first awareness. This first awareness is said to be charged by the unimaginable God because there is no other imaginable cause standing in its background. The components of this first wish are awareness and inert energy. Therefore, we can say that the unimaginable God is mediated by this first awareness. Shankara took this awareness as God. It means that He spoke about the unimaginable God only through the awareness as medium. The awareness helps the introduction of God to become easy. Ramanuja and Madhva have taken this medium of awareness split into two components i.e., energy and awareness. Lord Narayana is the first mediated God in their philosophies. Lord Narayana is in energetic body with awareness. Therefore, even the medium of Shankara (awareness) consists of the inert energy and awareness only. Hence, there is no difference in the starting point of these three preachers. The philosophy of energy (Shaakteya) also takes the same medium, which is awareness and inert energy. The other philosophies like Saura taking Sun as the starting point, Skaanda taking Lord Subrahmanya as the starting point and Ganapatya taking Lord Ganapathi as the starting point are exactly similar to the concept of Lord Narayana. The philosophy taking Lord Krishna as the starting point is an extension of this first awareness generating the matter. A materialized form containing matter, inert energy and awareness (human body) is also in the same line, which deals with the concept of human incarnation more congenial for human beings. The extra matter can be viewed as inert energy itself because matter and energy are inter-convertible. Even the Saankhya philosophy, saying that inert energy and inert matter as the first point of creation, accepts the awareness (Purusha) to be detached (Asanga). The generation of awareness from the inert energy is also acceptable as per the evolution said by the Veda (Earth to plants, to food, to awareness etc.). Awareness is a specific function of the inert energy and can be taken as inert energy only in essential sense. In deep sleep, the awareness disappears and exists as inert energy only in the body. In this way, the philosophy of Saankhya is also an angle of explanation and should not be condemned. In the Saankhya, the awareness (Purusha) exists side by side with inert energy and matter (Prakruti or Pradhana). They say that Prakruti is made of three component qualities i.e., Sattvam, Rajas and Tamas. These three qualities belong to awareness only and they happen to be the qualities of inert Prakruti because there is no difference between inert energy and awareness in essential sense. Even the Purusha said to be existing side by side with Prakruti is the awareness existing in the first wish and not the awareness generated in course of the Vedic evolution. Therefore, Saankhya accepted the first wish. They stressed on the inert energy, which is the actual material of this entire world, which is a fact to be accepted. Here, the awareness generated in this world is also from inert matter, which is evolved from inert energy as per the Veda. Even in other religions the same medium appears to be the first point. Persians say that fire is the starting point, which is nothing but the visible inert energy. Buddhists say that the awareness (Prajna philosophy of Dignaga) as the starting point. Even the Madhyamika philosophy of Nagarjuna (Buddhism) says that the space (Shunyam), which is the invisible inert energy as the starting point. The Scripture accepts that the word Shunyam is an alternative word for space (Akaasho Gaganam Shunyam). Shunyam does not mean nothing but the space, which is invisible energy. Islam says that space (invisible inert energy) as the medium of Allah to be the starting point. Christianity says that the energetic form called Jehovah or Father of Heaven (like Lord Narayana) as the starting point. Therefore, all the philosophies in this world have taken the first point as the inert energy with awareness indicating the unimaginable God in the background, Who has created this world. Charging means that the unimaginable God is in the background of this first wish. When the first wish is modified into the world, God does not enter the world along with this wish. Therefore, the Veda says that nothing in this world is God. The entry of God into this world takes place only in the case of human incarnation. Hence, God is always beyond this world. Some have indicated even this unimaginable God. Buddha indicated the starting point by silence indicating that the absolute God is unimaginable and beyond words. Even Shankara told the same (Mouna Vyaakhya...). Now, Shri Datta Swami (do not misunderstand this human being because Datta Swami means Lord Dattatreya speaking through this human being) finally stressed on the unimaginable God as the starting original cause of this creation. Scholars say that they stop with some imaginable item as the beginning point of the creation because the non ending chain (ad infinitum) results. This is not a justified answer because you are tired with a long journey and stop at some point of the earth and say that that is the edge of the earth. You have to really reach the edge of the earth and say that the earth ends there because ocean starts. Similarly, Shri Datta Swami took the journey upto the edge of the earth (this creation), which is the awareness and inert energy (wish) and says that beyond this point the ocean (unimaginable process with unimaginable God) exists. The infinite boundary of this world also speaks the same as the practical proof stating that you cannot reach the edge of the universe because you cannot touch the unimaginable God, who is present beyond that edge of the universe. Lord Krishna showed the infinite cosmic vision (Vishwarupa) and said the same one point as the message of such vision i.e. “there is no end for this creation created by Me” (Nantosti...). This one point is the essential purpose of the vision of infinite cosmos and not to threaten Arjuna to force him to abide to His word.

Potentials of Awareness of God & Human Being Are Different

6) In the case of God, the awareness of the unimaginable God exists. However, here you cannot speak about neurons and brain in the case of unimaginable God. If you see the awareness in the human being, the awareness is aware of itself but not aware of the unimaginable God. Thus, the nature of awareness may be same in both the cases of God and human being, but, the potentials are different. The potential of the awareness of human being can know only the imaginable items. The background potential of God's awareness knows both imaginable and unimaginable items. Therefore, the background potential of the wish of God stands as the unimaginable God. The potential lies in the producer, which is exhibited in the process. Hence, the producer (God) and potential are one and the same and can be called as the one unimaginable God. The potential of human awareness is imaginable and is not unimaginable like that of God, which knows Himself or God. The Veda says that the knower of God is God alone (Brahma vit Brahmaiva). Here the careful clarification should be conveyed i.e., the background potential is spoken in the case of awareness of the first wish of God. It is only in the background, which means that this is not the potential of the first imaginable awareness (wish) of God. This potential is the potential of the unimaginable awareness present in the God. This means that the first awareness of God does not have the knowledge of unimaginable God since it is imaginable by its nature. This unimaginable potential exists in the unimaginable awareness of God, which is the awareness created by His unimaginable power without nervous system. The unimaginable awareness means to know anything without being the worldly awareness.

The inert energy and space are essentially one and the same and this is clearly established in the above mentioned part. The awareness or wish is also a specific work form of inert energy only. Immediately the question comes that the awareness or wish of God cannot be established as specific in the absence of specific nervous system. The specific aspect of the awareness in absence of nervous system is again unimaginable and this becomes the unimaginable potential of the awareness since two unimaginable items cannot exist separately. Therefore, the specific nature in absence of nervous system, which is the unimaginable potential stands as the one unimaginable God. This is the background of the awareness or wish of God, which by itself is not the imaginable awareness or imaginable wish. This means that the unimaginable potential standing in the background is different from the imaginable nature of the wish and hence, in the modification of the wish into world, this unimaginable potential or God does not enter the world. This means that God is not forced to enter the world as cause (like mud enters the pot). God enters the world only by His free will as in the case of human incarnation. Scholars say that God is the doer (Nimitta) and the causal material (Upadana). This is not complete because you are forcing the rules of worldly logic in the case of unimaginable God. The best simile is the creation of some products by a magician with the unknown technique. This is said in the Veda (Indro Maayaabhih...).

This imaginable first wish, which itself is another form of the imaginable inert energy is called as inert energy in essence. The golden chain is called as gold. This does not mean that the shape of the chain and the shape of the lump are one and the same. Again, space is another form of inert energy like the golden ring, which is another form of the golden lump. From the view of the common essential gold, the golden chain, the golden lump and the golden ring are one the same because the essential substance is gold (inert energy). This does not mean that the shapes of the chain, the lump and the ring are one and the same. In terms of the simile, let Me say the concept like this: God created the golden chain (wish) first. Then, the golden chain is melted to create golden lump (inert energy). Then, the golden lump is again melted to fabricate a golden ring (space). The homogeneity in these three items is the golden lump (since crude gold can exist in the form of a lump only). When the golden chain is transformed into golden lump, the shape of the chain did not enter the lump. But, the same gold in the chain entered the lump and the same gold entered the ring also. In the ring also, the shape of the chain did not appear. Similarly, the first wish (golden chain) generated the inert energy (Tejas), which resulted as a golden ring (space). Here, the sequence is not in terms of time. In the wish (golden chain) the inert energy (gold) exists which has a potential to produce the space (ring). The potential itself is the ring. Hence, the generation always means the appearance of that which already exists in the cause in subtle state (Sat karya vada). However, this argument is limited to the process of generation between imaginable items only. In the case of unimaginable item (God), the non-existent inert energy and awareness appeared from God (Asat Karya Vada). The Veda speaks both these in different contexts. The evolution of non-existent into existent is in the context of the first creation from God (Asat va Idam...). The evolution of existent product from its existent state in the cause is in the context of appearance of the rest world from the first wish (Sadeva somya idam...). The word 'Idam' in both statements is related to the world evolving from non-existent and existent states as in the cases of first wish and rest world respectively. Here the important point is that when the world evolved from the first wish, the awareness need not homogeneously enter the world everywhere. The inert energy (gold) existing in the first wish (big golden chain) only entered the world in various other forms also like space, matter and awareness (ring, crown and chain). Hence, the awareness need not appear in the entire world homogeneously. Even here, the entry of God does not exist because in the charged awareness also God is only in the background and not identified with the first item of the creation (exception is human incarnation). Charging means association only and not entry.

7) Question: Brahma Sutras say that this world is created from God (Janmaadsya) and in this context Sankara wrote in the commentary that God is Nimitta (designer) as well as Upadana (material cause). This means that the creation of world from God is following the worldly logic. But, you say that the worldly logic fails in this context.

Reply: The process of creation of world from God takes place in two steps. In the first step, the first item of the creation (wish) is created from the unimaginable God through unimaginable process. In this first step of creation only, the worldly logic fails and hence God does not enter the first item of creation (and subsequent items of creation also).The first item of creation (and also the rest creation) is non-existent in the original unimaginable God, which becomes existent after its generation (Asdvaa...). In this first step, the magician creating magic is the best example. In the second step in which the rest creation is generated from the first wish, the worldly logic applies, which is mentioned in the context of the commentary of Shankara. The mud and pot maker creating the pot stand as best example in this second step. Shankara did not take the unimaginable God as the cause here because the knowledge should not start with unimaginable point. Due to this problem a real preacher keeps silent because he cannot start with the real beginning. The real beginning is the original unimaginable God. No Preacher prefers the real beginning, which is unimaginable. Every preacher prefers to take the first item of creation (wish or awareness) as the beginning since the cause is imaginable and the process of generation of this rest of the world from such cause is also imaginable. But, if the first creation is taken as the starting point, it cannot be called as creator since it is already created item. To solve this problem, the preachers preferred the original unimaginable God associated with the first item of creation called as mediated God. The medium of such mediated God alone becomes the designer and material cause. This first medium (wish) contains awareness acting as designer and inert energy acting as material cause as its components. When they say that God is designer and material cause, the word God means the associated medium only, which is the first item of creation (wish). The first item of creation certainly enters the world following the rules of worldly logic. The awareness in this world is from the awareness of first wish and the inert world is from the inert energy existing in the first wish. This is the second step in which the rest of the world evolved from the first wish. The only characteristic of the original unimaginable God that entered the world is the existence (Sat) of the original God. The Veda says that only the existence of the ultimate cause entered the world as the existence in this relative world (Asti ityeva...). This means that the non-existent world that emerged from God exists because of the existence of the original God only. The existence of illusionary snake is the existence of the rope only. If the rope is non-existent, the illusionary snake cannot be even seen. If you understand that God exists, it does not mean that you have understood the nature of God and it does not mean that God is imaginable. The existence of unimaginable God does not give any clue or the nature of God for imagination. People say that the awareness and bliss are other characteristics of God that enter the world. This is not correct because awareness (bliss is its characteristic only) is from the medium or first wish only. Awareness and bliss are imaginable characteristics and cannot be the characteristics of unimaginable God. Here the Sankhya philosophy can also be correlated, which says that Purusha is detached from the associated Prakruti or the first wish. Here, Purusha is the unimaginable God associated with the first wish or Prakruti and is detached from it so that Purusha does not enter the world.

8) The first wish or Prakruti contains the three items in equilibrium state before the creation of this world. The three works i.e., generation, control and dissolution require these three items as per the necessity. Creation requires the inert energy (Rajas) as the material cause called as Brahma, who should be associated with knowledge (Sattvam) called as Saraswati for design. Brahma or Saraswati has the three qualities in which one quality is predominating. The scripture says that no single quality can exist in isolated state. The controlling and maintenance of the world giving awards of happiness to the merits, involve Sattvam, called as Vishnu and Tamas (matter for material benefits), called as Lakshmi. The dissolution of the creation involves Tamas, called as Shiva to destroy everything and everybody without discrimination during the punishments of sins. The instrument for the dissolution is the energy, called as Parvati. Sattvam is knowledge or awareness. Rajas is the energy existing as quantized particles indicating dynamism. Tamas is the inertia of the inert energy indicating static state. The first wish containing these three in the state of equilibrium called as Adishakti or Durga or Mula Maya, which is the cause of the rest of the world (maya). If you like to call this mula maya also as maya only since mula maya is also created item, the word mula maya refers to the original unimaginable God, which means the original cause (Mula) of the creation (maya). The disturbance of the equilibrium in mula maya leads in to the various activities in the process of creation.

The word ‘charging’ in this context of creation of first item from the unimaginable God should be taken as mere stand in the background. God is like a person wearing the first item as shirt. The evolution of world is from the shirt only and not from the behind person. Of course, this evolution of world from first item is due to the will of the behind God only as said in the Veda (Bahvih prajaah...) and in the Gita (Mayaadhyakshena...). God is behind the first item but did not identify Himself with it. Hence, God did not enter even the first item and not to speak of His entry into the subsequently created rest of the world. This does not mean that God never enters the world. He enters in to a specific human being and identifies Himself with it. Here, the medium (human being) becomes God and is called as human incarnation. If you take this concept of human incarnation to the case of association of unimaginable God with the first item, all the mistakes will appear. This real world to human beings is imaginary to God and the enjoyment of God by entertainment is not full in such imaginary world. This is experienced in the case of human being entertained by its imaginary world. The absolute reality of God and relative reality of the world are experienced together and hence, never the imaginary world becomes real world in view of God. You can never feel your imaginary world as real and hence the entertainment is partial only. God wants to get the real entertainment from the creation and for this purpose His imaginary world should become real to Himself. For this, God enters and identifies with a specific human being and feels the reality of world through such human being for which the world is real. If God forgets Himself completely, His entertainment becomes full. Such human incarnation is Rama in whom God existed forever through such full ignorance, giving full entertainment. Hence, He was called Rama. Rama means full entertainment (Ramate iti). A sage has to come to remind Him about His real nature to come out of the strong inhibition of the role.


Second Part:

1) Question: If you say that the inert energy (gold) present in the wish (golden chain) of God only entered the creation and not the awareness (shape of the chain), in such case, the entire creation must be inert only. In such case there should be no evolution of plants, birds and animals and human beings in the evolution of the creation.

Reply: Let Me say like this: God created a big golden chain (wish). It is melted to produce golden lump (inert energy). From the golden lump, a golden ring (space) and a small golden chain (worldly awareness seen in living beings) are created. Hence, from the big golden chain (wish of God), a small golden chain (awareness in the form of plants, birds, animals and human beings) is created. Here, the initial visible cause is big golden chain in which neither lump of gold nor golden ring is seen. But, the gold in the big golden chain has hidden potential to generate ring, chain and other forms of jewels. The big golden chain is converted into lump from which a small chain, a small lump and a small ring are created. Hence, the first visible cause is big golden chain (wish), from which a big lump (inert energy) is produced. The big lump is transformed into a small ring (space or invisible inert energy), a small lump (visible inert energy) and a small chain (awareness) in the plants, birds, animals and human beings. You can also add another form of gold, which is a small golden crown (matter). In this world, we see the final products as space, visible inert energy like light etc., awareness in living beings and matter. None of these four products is a single item forming the entire world. Hence, awareness is seen as a small product only in the form of living beings occupying a small space of the world. You cannot say that since in the beginning only wish or awareness of God existed, the same should exist in all the final products. Since there was one big golden chain only in the beginning, it should not mean that the shape of the big chain should exist in all the four final products.

2) You should not argue that the awareness part of God's wish entered the creation as the awareness (soul) of living beings and the inert energy part of God's wish is transformed into space, visible inert energy and matter. By this, you should not conclude that the awareness of God and the awareness of the human being are one and the same. You may put this argument to achieve the final conclusion that the soul and God are one and the same. Such a conclusion has two objections: a) God and His first wish are not one and the same because God is unimaginable and first wish is imaginable. When the pot maker created a pot, he did not enter the pot. Only his imaginary skill entered the pot. Similarly, the imaginable nature of the awareness (called as awareness) entered the world but not the background of the wish which is unimaginable. The wish is creation and God is the Creator. Even if you assume that the entire wish is transformed into creation and that the entire creation is awareness, you cannot achieve the result that the awareness in the creation is God. The awareness is not seen everywhere in the creation to say that awareness entered the entire creation homogeneously. It is seen in living beings only, which form a small part of the creation. b) Even the awareness seen in the living beings is different from the awareness of God since the awareness of God has unlimited and unimaginable potentiality in the direct background (though it is not the inherent potential of the first wish), whereas there is no any background potential of awareness of living beings and the potential existing in this worldly awareness is limited and imaginable.

2) Question: The awareness (first wish) of God created this real world, which is His imaginary world. Similarly, the awareness of living being is creating its own imaginary world. From the view of the common creation of the imaginary world with respect to the creator, we can call the soul as God. The imaginary world of God is real to the human being, which is part and parcel of the imaginary world. Similarly, the imaginary world of human being is real to the imaginary human being which is a part and parcel of the imaginary world created by human being. Thus, the similarity is complete in both the cases.

Reply: Even though the similarity is same in the process of creation of imaginary world of the soul and imaginary world of God, the real world of the soul is imaginary world of God. This makes the difference between soul and God. By this, you cannot achieve even the least point like to say that the soul is at least a tiny part of God and hence, the strength of God and the weakness of the soul brings this quantitative difference. Even this is rejected because the background of God's awareness (first wish) is unimaginable and the background of the awareness of the soul is imaginable. If both the backgrounds are imaginable, you can bring this point of soul being a particle of God. This concept of whole and particle applies to the first wish (huge awareness) and the soul (a particle of the huge awareness). This aspect of quantitative difference is between two imaginable items (first wish and soul). There can be neither qualitative nor quantitative difference between the unimaginable item and imaginable item. Ramanuja brought [out] this quantitative difference between God (taken as His medium, which is huge awareness and energy) and the soul (which is a small point of the first awareness embedded in a small point of inert energy as body).

3)Question: Veda says that souls are particles of God like the fire particles of a big fire.

Reply: The souls are definitely the fire particles but the big fire mentioned there is not God, but, the God's original wish acting as His associated medium. This is the difference between big golden chain and small golden chain. However, only the imaginable nature of first wish is the big fire and not the unimaginable background of first wish.

4) Question: Veda says that God entered the creation. The entry of God can be taken as the appearance of awareness or soul in the world.

Reply: Already it is rejected that God did not enter the world as the soul, but, the imaginable part of first awareness of God entered the world as soul. Of course, the entry of God into the world is also true since the Veda stated so. But, the entry of God into the world should be taken in the context of formation of human incarnation. The entry of the imaginable part of the first wish (not the background) can be taken as the formation of the soul. God stated in the Gita that the first part of His imaginable creation, which is the awareness, has become the soul (Jivabhutaam...). He has clearly stated there that a part of His creation and did not state that He Himself became the soul.

Mediator: It is not necessary to say that awareness of God entered the world as soul. The Veda says that the five elements are evolved in evolution. On the basis of the same principles of evolution, the last element (earth) generated plants etc., (the living beings). The inert energy of the first wish is transformed into invisible inert energy, which is space (Akaasha), the visible inert energy (Agni) and matter in three states (gas or Vayu, liquid or Jala and solid or Pruthivi). This means that the inert energy in two states (visible and invisible) and matter in three states generated the awareness because the earth contains all these elements. Full life and little mind are in plants. Full life, full mind and little intelligence are in birds and animals. Full life, full mind and full intelligence are in human beings. Today, a robot is generated from matter and inert energy, which is exactly equal to a human being. Therefore, the cause of awareness need not be awareness (God's wish), but can be the inert matter and inert energy also. Hence, you need not take much worry to establish that the part of imaginable awareness of God's wish entered the world as awareness or soul. Hence, the soul is not from awareness of first wish of God but from the inert energy and inert matter only.

Reply: The opinion of mediator is not different in any way from the answer given above, if careful analysis is reviewed. One is telling that awareness or soul is generated from the imaginable part of the awareness of God. Another is telling that the awareness or soul is generated from the inert energy contained in the God's wish, which is included in the imaginable nature itself. One is telling that the big golden chain generated the small golden chain. Another is telling that the gold present in the big golden chain generated the small golden chain. Both are simultaneously correct. The shape of the big golden chain is seen in the shape of small golden chain. This is the first theory stating that awareness generated awareness. In this theory, the intermediate step i.e., golden lump is overlooked. In the second theory, the gold in the golden chain, which is formed as the intermediate golden lump generated the small golden chain. The first theory is based on the similarity of the original cause and the final product. The second theory is based on the production of the final product from the intermediate entity, which is present in the original cause itself. Hence, there is no difference between the point of the first theory and the point of mediator presented in the second theory.

5) Question: If the soul is generated from the awareness existing in the first wish of God, the soul must be also independent of the nervous system. The cause enters the product with all its characteristics. Hence, the soul (awareness) exists in the deep sleep also since it does not depend on the function of the nervous system. This proves that the knower exists in deep sleep as soul, experiencing the total ignorance. If you do not agree all this, you have to accept that the soul is produced from the inert energy and inert matter only as suggested by the mediator, in which case Gita becomes wrong and Veda alone is correct.

Reply: This is not correct because both the Veda and the Gita are one and the same. The Gita is said to be the essence of the Veda. The imaginable part of the first wish (awareness) only entered into the creation as soul and not its background. You have wrongly represented the actual picture by saying that the awareness of God’s wish entered the creation along with its unimaginable background. Hence, the soul depends on the function of nervous system because the soul is only the imaginable awareness of the first wish without its background. The soul does not exist in the deep sleep as the awareness [is] experiencing the total ignorance. In the deep sleep, there is no experience at all because the awareness (as process and as knower) does not experience even the ignorance. The experience of total ignorance can be achieved in the awaken state only in which the awareness takes full rest without thinking anything other than itself. Such stage as said by you is possible in the awaken state only and not in the deep sleep in which the knower also does not exist due to the absence of the process of knowing. The generation of the soul from the imaginable first wish, which includes the inert energy speaks about the co-relation of the Veda and the Gita. The Veda speaks about the evolution of awareness from the inert energy and matter. The Gita speaks about the evolution of soul from the awareness existing in the first wish. The first wish has three sides: first is the awareness. Second is the inertia of the inert energy indicating the static matter. Third is the dynamic energy. Since awareness is work of inert energy, you can never avoid the inertia and energy in the awareness. The first wish is not mere inert energy so that only inert matter and inert forms of energy are evolved as world. The inert energy has two sides: the inertia of matter and the dynamic energy. But, the awareness has three sides. This difference is due to the edition of specific work function of the inert energy called as awareness. Therefore, awareness need not exist in the inert energy but the inert energy always exists in the awareness. The gold is in the chain but the chain need not be in the gold. Therefore, the soul or awareness has also three sides like the first wish. Awareness is limited form where as the inert energy is unlimited and universal. Hence, the production of soul from the awareness and from the inert energy associated with the specific system is possible in the both the ways. The awareness in the first wish was not associated with the specific system and hence has unimaginable background. The awareness in the soul is always associated with the specific system and hence, its background is imaginable. In the absence of specific system, the inert energy is seen in different inert forms. The same inert energy is seen as awareness in the presence of the specific system. Hence, you find awareness in limited places only wherever the specific system is associated. But, you can find the inert energy everywhere throughout the universe even in the awareness also.

You must also note that the awareness is the work form of inert energy only. The quantum of work done by a machine is always directly proportional to the quantum of current spent in it. Therefore, the work of the machine is directly proportional to the quantity of current supplied. Hence, in this view, the awareness is not at all different from any other work form of inert energy. In such case, why is this work form alone called as awareness? The difference comes because of the specific nature of the working system, which alone differentiates this specific work (awareness) from all other forms of work. Except this one difference, which makes the classification as living and inert, the awareness as good as any other work form of inert energy. The awareness disappears, if you do not supply the inert food that is converted in to inert energy, resulting in the death. This proves that the awareness is work form of the supplied inert energy only.

6) Question: Why Veda stated only the space or visible inert energy as the first product of creation? Why did it not mention that the first creation is the wish?

Reply: This entire universe is only the work of God and there is no entity existing like God in this world. The word creation itself means the process or work and the same word stands for the product of the work also. This means that the product is also work. Even the matter is the static form of the dynamic energy only. The dynamism existing in the matter is not visible due to the condensation of energy. Hence, certain work forms are called as entities for convenience due to their visible static nature. A castle in the imaginary world appears to be an entity. But, this entity is again the work form of the inert energy only. In spite of this uniform dynamism, certain forms of dynamism are named as entities and certain forms of dynamism are named as works due to relative difference between them. Energy is named as an entity since either space (invisible) or radiation (visible) are received as entities in relative sense with respect to worldly works. Relatively, the awareness is pure work form only and not recognized as entity. The current sent into the machine is recognized as entity but its work done in the machine is not received as an entity. Due to this small difference, only entities are mentioned as the first product. However, it is said in the Veda that God wished to create the world before its creation. Therefore, the generation of awareness (wish) can be taken as the first product. In the awareness, the inert energy also exists and hence the two entities termed as first product get mentioned in the word ‘awareness’.

7) Question: Since inertness is in the awareness, the classification of living and nonliving disappears.

Reply: It is not correct because the inert energy is in awareness everywhere. But, the awareness is not in the inert energy everywhere. The gold is in every chain and the chain is not in all the other golden jewels and not even in the crude gold. The extra existence of the specific work function of the inert energy called as awareness brings the difference between the awareness and inert energy existing in other forms. All the other forms of inert energy are differentiated by their specific forms of work. The inert energy itself is dynamic and is a form of work of God only. Hence, a classification between the items of the world cannot be done based on the general work or dynamism. The classification of different items of the world is based on the difference between the specific forms of work only. The chain, ring, crown, bangle etc., are classified based on the different specific forms of molding work. If you take the work in general as the basis, you cannot differentiate all the jewels.

Inert Systems in Body Function As Per Will of God

The difference between inertia and awareness is based on lack of independence and presence of independence. Anything independent represents awareness. Anything dependent on the will of awareness represents inertia. You are awareness since you can move the rod in your hand in any direction you like. The rod represents inertia since it cannot move in any direction independently and moves only according to your will. All the inert items of the world are in the control of God only since you cannot handle them as you wish. The inert systems in your body also function as per will of God only and not as per your will. Your will is that the systems must function always in regular way and should function forever. But, the systems do not abide your will and get spoiled and slowly die against your will. Therefore, the independence of awareness in this world is not fully given by God. Even the little independence seen in living beings does not inherently belong to those beings at all. You can move your hand as per your will. But, God’s will can make you inefficient to move your own hand. Indra became a statute when Lord Shiva stared at him. The river Yamuna gave path to Vasudeva on the will of God. Any non-living thing can become living being and vice-versa on the will of God. Hence, the only awareness having complete independence is God. All this creation containing both living and non-living items is originally and inherently inert. In view of God, this classification of living and non-living becomes meaningless. Thus, awareness also is a product of inert energy only and is inherently inert. You cannot aspire the soul to be at least partial God because of the little independence given by God. This little independence given by God to soul can be withdrawn by God at anytime and such divinity is illusory only.

[Questions of Dr. Nikhil:]

1) If space itself is God's awareness, how can God's wish charge it? 2) How was the wish generated? 3) God's awareness must precede space. God's awareness should come first. His wish should come second. Space should come third. Then His wish can enter space but His wish being not different from Him means that God Himself enters space. It becomes a case of homogeneous entry. Without homogeneous entry, evolution of creation can't happen”.

Reply: 1) Space represents the invisible inert energy that exists in the God’s wish. Because God’s wish itself is the first creation, we can say that space is also the first creation as said in the Veda. Space is present as seed in the inert energy existing in God’s wish. From this first item of creation (God’s wish) the seed of space evolved as space. Space is the invisible part of inert energy and the inert energy exists in the first wish like the gold in the big chain. A part of gold existing in the big chain is converted in to a ring. The chain does not enter the ring and hence the space is not charged by God’s wish.

2) The first imaginable wish is generated from the unimaginable God through unimaginable process. In this context, the worldly logic cannot be applied to give the answer. However, we can give the answer for the generation of wish from awareness in the world. Your awareness is the specific work function of inert energy resulting in the working nervous system. Such specific work itself is awareness, which is the work or process of knowing and the knower also. For convenience, you can differentiate the brain as knower (subject) and the work in the nervous system as process of knowing or knowledge. The wish is the awareness when the object exists other than knower. The aspiration to attain such object is the wish. Even in the state of awareness, the object exists as reflection of the subject, which is separate from the subject. Therefore, the wish in worldly soul comes from the reflection of an external object stored in the memory power (chittam) received by brain in the first instance and subsequently the process of attraction as an activity of awareness forms the wish.

3) The first wish of God is generated with the simultaneous awareness because wish itself is awareness in view of the basic activity of triad. The earlier thoughts of God were by the unimaginable power of God. This first wish can also be categorized under the unimaginable path. But, the wish itself is the starting phase of the creation. All the further creation is also this wish only. All the creation is imaginary and hence the material of the entire creation is this first wish only. The difference between the awareness and wish is almost nil and the difference between the awareness and inert items in the world is due to the difference between the awareness (specific work function of inert energy) and the inert energy existing as the basis of the wish. The knowledge of God for this awareness is in the background itself, which means that the knowledge of God is available to God and such knowledge does not require any awareness. Hence, if you isolate this first wish or awareness from its background, the first wish is just imaginable awareness only without the knowledge of God. We do not have any objection if you bring the state of awareness as the first and state of wish as second. But, both these states existing in the first wish or first awareness of God are imaginable only. Since God is not awareness, these two states cannot come in God. The space exists as seed in the wish and comes out in evolved state. Hence, you can call the awareness, wish and space as subsequent steps. All these three states are dependent on God as relative reality and hence you can also speak these items as God’s awareness, God’s wish and God’s space. The first wish containing all these components can enter the world and here the cause (first wish), the process of evolution and the final product are imaginable only. Neither the unimaginable God nor His awareness of Himself, nor the unimaginable potential and process in creating the first wish remain in the imaginable first wish. There is no question of even heterogeneous entry of unimaginable God into either awareness part of first wish or inert energy part of the first wish, not to speak of His entry in to space. The first wish is imaginable and is different from unimaginable God. The homogeneous entry of unimaginable God is possible only in the human incarnation.


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