Satsanga With Swami by Kum. Trailokya

O Learned and Devoted Servants of God,

[Kum. Trailokya is a B.Tech., student of Dr. Nikhil in Amma University, who came to Swami for Satsanga or divine conversation]

Ms. Trailokya:- Dr. Nikhil Sir told a lot about You and explained Your spiritual knowledge in detail, which is very very rare to be attained by fortunate souls only.

Swami:- Up to post-graduate degree, existing concepts are learnt whereas in the research work done for Ph.D degree, the opposite side of the existing concept is searched again and again to see whether a true concept is false and whether a false concept is true. A research work always thinks about the reverse of the existing concept. Myself and Dr. Nikhil are Ph.D degree holders and hence, we both always think and speak reverse. Hence, whatever was said about Me by Dr. Nikhil is not true and whatever I said in My spiritual knowledge is also not true.

Ms. Trailokya:- (with loud laughter) No. No. Sir! You are testing my faith in You! I have a poem written by my mother for You (Trailokya read the poem and presented it to Swami).

Swami:- The poem is excellent, but, I differ in two points expressed in the poem:-

1) “what can I give to You when everything is Yours?”—It is true that God gives wealth to us and we offer a little of it to God in return in gratitude or in love even though we are not aware of this fact because we sacrifice our wealth only in case of real love to anybody. But, we don’t donate to God anything even though we know this fact (that God only gives wealth to us) pretending as if we are not donating part of our wealth to God because we are unable to grasp that whatever we possess is given by God only. God does not exhibit His donation to us, which is kept as secret. We think that we have earned this wealth by our efforts and by our fortune. All this is done by the divine will of God. If we know that all that we possess is given by God, we don’t feel that we have sacrificed a little of our belonging wealth to God due to our practically real love to God and not due to gratitude only. Real love and gratitude are mixed giving confusion. Even in such case of our knowledge about the donated wealth by God, we feel that it is our bound justified duty to sacrifice at least a little of our wealth to God, which was already donated by God to us. In such case, the background love in our donation to God becomes absent. If we feel that whatever we possess belongs to us only and if we are sacrificing a little of it to God, we feel that we have some real practical love to God. In order to test our practical love (isolated from gratitude) to Him, He keeps His donation to us as top secret and makes us believe that we have earned our wealth by our efforts only. Even now, if the donation is done to God, it must be based on real love only. A grandfather brought a packet of biscuits for his grandson and gave the packet to the mother of his grandson secretly telling her not to reveal this secret to his grandson. The mother gave a biscuit to her son and the son feels that his mother gave that biscuit purchased by her and does not know that the grandfather purchased and gave him biscuit indirectly. When somebody helps us without any reason, at least, there, you must recognize the helping hand of God.

But, here, the drama is very tight because the mother naturally purchases biscuit to give to her son! If the mother asks a part of the biscuit while eaten by the son, the son gives a part of the biscuit as a step of gratitude irrespective of his love to his mother. But, now the grandfather is asking a part of the biscuit and there is no concept of gratitude in the mind of the grandson because he feels that the biscuit is bought and is given by his mother and not by his grandfather. If the grandson gives a part of the biscuit, it shall be due to his proven pure love to his grandfather only. If a beggar asks for a part of the biscuit, the boy may give a part of it due to sympathy. In the case of grandfather, the only background behind the donation of part of biscuit is only true love and neither gratitude nor the sympathy. It becomes a perfect test of true love on grandfather. Even if you say theoretically that everything belongs to God only and that everything you possess is given by God only, when the practical situation of donation to God comes, your mind is covered by the divine power of illusion (māyā) and you certainly think that whatever you possess belongs to you only. Hence, this concept that everything possessed by you is given by God only—is a pure theoretical concept told by you to please God without practically giving anything to God. Every point in this concept is based on Applied Economics. Some more clever people ask that even if they donate to God, is that unimaginable God coming directly to enjoy their donation? If we say that the unimaginable God comes as human incarnation to enjoy your offered donation, they reject the very concept of human incarnation in protecting their basic Applied Economics. Your mother does not belong to the category of such clever people because she has sent some special items of food and some offering of money as Guru Dakshinaa to Me through you in practical line. Her statement is not to cover greediness, but, is based on her identification of the reality that whatever possessed by us is given by God only. Shankara says the same point in the last verse of ‘Soundarya Laharī’ that whatever prayer done by Him is constructed by the words given by God (divine mother) only just like taking a little water from the sea for submitting it to same sea (as tarpaṇam). We must know that the grandfather is asking for a part of biscuit from his grandson not based on the need of it, but, based on the test of practical reality of theoretical love possessed by grandson towards him.

2) “Let my basic ‘I’ merge with You and disappear so that You alone are leftover”.—I disagree with this point. God created this world and souls in it for His entertainment since He is bored with His oneness as said in the Veda. Your statement means that God shall lose His entertainment and shall become again bored! If you say that even if you disappear, other souls exist to continue the drama for His entertainment, this is not true, God would have not created you at all in case there is no need of your presence in the world. The devotion between God and soul is pure love, which is the sweetest part of His entertainment. Even if you are an atheist, your absence is not tolerated by God because the cinema without Villain is as boring as the cinema without hero. If you exist in the world with your full individuality, your contribution to the entertainment of God is fully fulfilled giving pleasure to God. What more you require than giving pleasure to God? God will never fulfil your wish to make you absent from the entertaining world. Instead of your merge with Him, He will merge with you to become incarnation in which both of you (God and soul) co-exist as one only because you forget yourself and God alone functions to do a divine program for the welfare of the world. In this way, your desire can be fulfilled. You exist, but, forget yourself in the incarnation. Such incarnation is monistic incarnation. Some devotees want to keep their individuality intact so that they can enjoy the sweet devotion through dualism. Such incarnation is dualistic incarnation in which God and soul co-exist without merge. Even in dualistic incarnation, God alone functions and carries on the divine program. Krishna is monistic incarnation whereas Balarama is a dualistic incarnation standing by the side of Krishna counted under the ten famous divine incarnations of God.

Ms. Trailokya:- You said that propagation of true spiritual knowledge by the devotee pleases God. Is it possible to change this entire world in real sense by the propagation of true spiritual knowledge?

Swami:- It is really possible to change the entire world if the propagated knowledge is true as given by Sadguru, the human incarnation of God since truth is the climax of power. If the knowledge is false, it will create doubts in the minds of people hearing it. Moreover, you need not worry whether the result of your efforts is achieved or not. Any result is always in the hands of God. Especially, the result of God’s work is certainly in the hands of God. He is not bothered about the result because the result can appear even without a trace of your effort just by His will. He delays the result to test your firmness and patience in doing God’s work continuously without bothering about its result since He knows that you know very well that you should do God’s work without worrying about its result (since the result is completely in the hands of God). Neither should you aspire the result for your benefit nor for the benefit of the world because neither you shall do His work for your selfishness nor for the benefit of the world. You are doing His work due to your love to God and not due to your love to the world. You love the world because God loves the world just like an industrialist loves his established industry. If He neglects the welfare of the world through His work done through you, you shall not bother about the welfare of the world and do the work that pleases Him only. When God competes with the welfare of the world, you should vote for God only. Rama told after defeating Ravana on the first day of war that if he returns Sita by next day, He will withdraw from the war and go back. This is a test for Hanuman. If Hanuman joined Rama to serve Him because killing of Ravana by Rama will end in the welfare of the world, Hanuman should have left Rama that night itself secretly without hurting Rama, who is very selfish about His wife to sacrifice the welfare of the world for the sake of His wife (let alive Ravana seduces others’ wives)! But, Hanuman did not do so and joined the war, the next day, because his love is on Rama and not on the world. A politician asks for votes in his speech promising several welfare measures of society, which benefit the society as well as the individual voter (voter being a part of society). Both the selfish benefit and social benefit are together achieved. Of course, today, the voter sees only selfish benefit! There is aspiration of benefit in return from the politician in the case of voter. Let us see the case of the parents of the politician asking for votes. The parents will vote blindly to their son/daughter without bothering about their or social benefit because they have true love on their issue without aspiration for any fruit in return. If such true love is on God, one will do the God’s work without aspiring any fruit (benefit for self or benefit for world) in return.

We must treat God as our adopted son (Datta means adopted son and not adopted father!). But, we are very clever in treating God not as adopted son, but, as adopted father to get benefits from Him even without doing any service and sacrifice. The ethical scripture says that there are ten types of sons and Datta or adopted son is one of the ten. Hence, we shall treat God Datta as our son and not as our father in view of the exploitation of the background of Applied Economics! If you do God’s work and aspire practical fruit in return for yourself, it is business devotion (Vaiśya bhakti). If you aspire practical fruits from God by exchanging your theoretical devotion (prayers and songs), it is prostitution devotion (Veśyā bhakti). We do both Karmasaṃnyāsa or sacrifice of work (like bathing them etc.,) in the beginning and do karmaphala tyāga or sacrifice of fruit of work (like writing will to give all the earnings to them) for our issues without aspiring any fruit in return and both these are proof for the climax love to our issues, which is called issue devotion (Apatya bhakti). In our theoretical prayers, we say that God is above all including issues! We don’t do even little sacrifice of both to God and is this not a blunt lie? Are we not trying to fool and trap the omniscient God through our clever false words! To cover up our lie and to protect our greediness, we say that God is not directly coming here to enjoy our sacrificed fruit and refuse the concept of contemporary human incarnation (while accepting dangerless past human incarnations) to avoid the sacrifice of fruit of our work. These people represented God by photos and statues so that the fruits can be offered theoretically and can be enjoyed by them subsequently as the remains of God’s enjoyment to get the grace of God through clever trick! Of course, there is good side also in worshiping statues that develops our theoretical devotion, which is the generator of practical devotion. OK. At least, you do the sacrifice of work by propagating the true spiritual knowledge in the world if you are very greedy or very poor and earn God’s grace. If you are lazy also to sacrifice work, apart from being greedy or poor, you better stick to the cleverest argument “God is not coming here directly to receive my service or sacrifice and I believe that God never comes in human form”. If somebody quotes the Gita for the concept of human incarnation (Manuṣīṃ tanumāśritam), you can say that the secondary scriptures are always polluted by some insertions as preached by Swami Dayānanda and Datta Swami! Actually, insertions are identified to be rejected in case of misinterpreted concept and not in case of protecting yourself from the inconvenience caused by the correct concept.

Ms. Trailokya:- I am observing lot of sins everywhere. Rich girls use costly cosmetics for better appearance and what about the poor girls? Moreover, I found several girls changing their boyfriends frequently without honesty!

Swami:- This point belongs to Pravrutti (worldly life) and not to Nivrutti (spiritual life). But, I will answer this through the spiritual angle. Beauty is always natural and is always gifted by God. Cosmetics are chemicals spoiling the tenderness of the skin. External appearance fades away with the age and even with passing time. A newly married couple is walking. A small stone entered the chappal of bride, who cried. The new bridegroom wept a lot saying “O angel of my heart! I can’t tolerate even a single tear in your eyes”. After one month, the same incident happened. The same husband became angry at his wife warning her to walk properly. After one more month, the same incident got repeated. The same husband became very furious shouting at his same wife “Are you blind? You are an idiot. How many times I should tell you?”. If this is the story after two months while the wife is maintaining the same good appearance, what will be the story in the old age when the wife loses all good appearance! The internal personality of qualities is very important to please God. Hanuman is not beautiful externally, but, His internal beauty is so excellent that He is named as beauty (Sundara) by poet Vālmiīki in naming Sundara Kāṇḍa. There is a mantra of Hanuman in the name of ‘Mantra of beautiful Hanuman’ (Sundara Hanumat Mantra). The grace of God is reflected on the external personality also in the form of divine radiation (Brahmatejas) that makes the external body also very very attractive and very very beautiful (Sarvadvāreṣu dehasya, prakāśa upajāyate—Gīta). Such radiation appeared on the personality of Swami Vivekānanda while giving spiritual speech in doing God’s work at Chicago city. The audience was dumb stuck not only by the speech of the saint, but, also by the attracting personality of the saint.

This world is a playground for God but not for the soul. For the soul, this world is very serious like the examination hall in which the soul is expected to behave with full discipline. When a girl puts her mind on several boy friends (imitating God Krishna), she will face horrible hell in this world in her life and also in the upper world after death since this is lowest illegal-unjust dushpravrutti. If the girl puts her mind on only one boyfriend to be married later on, she will face happy heaven here as well as there since she follows middle legal-justified pravrutti. If she leaves both illegal and legal bonds for the sake of God like Meera, she will be associated with the God here as well as there and this is the highest nivrutti, which is beyond both injustice and justice. Dushpravrutti belongs to demons. Pravrutti belongs to human beings and nivrutti belongs to angels. Angels and demons exist in human beings also by virtue of nature even though they exist separately by their individual appearance. The human being thinks that it is in the middle pravrutti by virtue of its external physical appearance even though by nature, it is in the lower dushpravrutti level. The human being mislead by its external appearance thinks that the next level for it to climb is nivrutti. But, by nature it is in the lower level and has to climb to the middle pravrutti level. Even though God has full freedom to play as He likes in this world, on sharp analysis we can understand Him not playing so. The theft of butter or wealth preserved for issues by Lord Krishna is to test the strength of worldly bonds like bond to issues and bond to wealth or butter in the case of Gopikaas. The dance with Gopikaas is to test the strength of their bonds with their life partners. Jesus told that He came to split devotees from their families by creating quarrels. The meaning of this is that He came to break the worldly bonds of devotees. If we take the superficial meaning only, we will misunderstand Krishna and Jesus.

Ms. Trailokya:- Nikhil sir replaced the last line of the six verses of Shankara by a new line, which says that I am always the servant of God Datta (Parabrahma Dattasya Dāsaḥ sadāham).

Swami:- Shankara told that He is Lord Siva incarnated in human form (Śivohaṃ Śivoham). The disciples also told the same to mean that each one of them is Lord Śiva. Then, Shankara swallowed the molten lead and told that He alone is Lord Shiva (Śivaḥ Kevalo'ham). In all these verses, the word ‘Shiva’ means Lord Shiva. But, Shiva also means pure and auspicious. This word ‘Shiva’ is used in this meaning also as we see in Shaakuntalam written by Kālidāsa ‘Let your part be pure and auspicious (Śivāḥ te panthānaḥ)’. In the sense of purity, the word ‘Shiva’ can be used to feel that you are pure awareness or soul and not this impure materialized body. Awareness is a form of energy and energy is always pure. If you take this word ‘Shiva’ in the sense of purity and not in the sense of God Shiva, you can read the verse of Shankara as it is feeling that you are the pure soul without being mislead by the word ‘Shiva’ to mean Lord Shiva. If you take the word ‘Shiva’ in its famous sense of God Shiva, it is correct to read as Nikhil sir replaced the last line that you are always the servant of God Shiva, who is God Datta only. Any form of God is Datta only because the word ‘Datta’ just means the unimaginable God given to the world through a mediated energetic or materialized form.

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