Posted on: 15 Apr 2017
Dr. Nikhil asked (on Phone),
1) One of my relative says “You need not leave the family bonds for the sake of God. We believe in the existence of creator. Doing Social service is good and that is also not compulsory. Spiritual progress is selfish only.” Please comment on these remarks.
Swami Replied: Nobody told that you should leave family bonds for the sake of God. For your information, by leaving family bonds, you cannot get the grace of God. What I told was simply that the family bonds get spontaneously dropped due to your over attachment to God. If I say that if one drinks divine nectar, he will leave coffee, this doesn't mean that you should leave coffee for getting divine nectar. In fact, even if you leave coffee for the whole life, divine nectar can't be obtained. The reality is that if you taste divine nectar, you will naturally leave coffee spontaneously without any effort for it. In fact, if you are attached to anything strongly, you will leave even the awareness of the rest atmosphere. When you are absorbed in seeing a cinema, you are not aware of even mosquito bites. Hence, the concept is misunderstood. Therefore, if one leaves the family and goes out, he will not attain the grace of God. If a devotee is absorbed in God, he gets detached from the family bonds internally while staying with the family. Detachment and attachment should be internal and both are expressed externally when the occasion demands. External exposure of both these need not be continuous. Moreover, a better suggested way is always that you should keep your attachment to God secretly in case of the opposition of external atmosphere. You must act as if you are attached to the external atmosphere while attaching yourself to God internally and secretly. This is the best way in order to reach your divine goal while not hurting any ignorant person. Ofcourse, you must make a trial to see whether your family members also get interest in the spiritual knowledge and reach the divine goal along with you. If you succeed, it is good. In fact, you should start the propagation of spiritual knowledge from your home only. But, if you find that the family members are of lower materialistic level, you must hide the higher level of spiritual knowledge and introduce God to them in the beginning level, which is to worship God to get materialistic benefits. You should not cross more than this level in their case unless they are ripened to receive the higher knowledge. This is the case not only about your family members but also about the majority of people, which is in the lower level only. You will get devotees of higher level of spiritual knowledge very rarely only. Hence, your personal progress in spiritual path is always with very limited people only. Unless you progress individually, you can't help others and such progress is not selfishness.
You should not say that spiritual progress is selfish. Society is made of individuals. Each individual is self and subject related to that self is selfish. Where is collective without individual? Even while doing social service, you have to serve individuals only. The service done to an individual is selfish as per your concept because your self as an individual or somebody else as an individual must be selfish only. The reason is that an individual (whether your self or somebody else) is self only. The word selfishness stands in bad sense only when you develop by harming others. In spiritual progress, you are not harming anybody except developing yourself so that you can help others in future. Hence, spiritual progress cannot stand as selfishness in bad sense. Social service is only a collective bundle of individual selfish services. You say that you accept the existence of Creator. The Creator also accepts your existence in this creation. Is this sufficient? Should you not get the grace of Creator? You can get His grace only when you are attached to Him theoretically as well as practically.
The main basic point is that fascination or over attachment to your family bonds is resulting in corruption, which is a sin especially when you are looting the poor people. You may not do social service to poor people and get heaven. Atleast stop your corruption in the case of poor people and avoid the hell. If heaven and hell are absent, what is the incentive for anybody to do social service? Similarly, what is the fear that can prevent the sin of corruption? If God, who gives punishment even if you escape the law here, is not cared, the control of sin becomes impossible. Don’t think that God simply created this world and is sitting aloof so that your recognition of His mere existence is sufficient. He is often proving His existence in several ways to this world so that every soul should be aware of His existence and capability of punishing the sinners.
God never wants your personal attachment to Him. God discourages such attachment by creating problems in the spiritual path. His ultimate goal and ultimate expectation from humanity is Pravrutti only. Pravrutti means doing justice or atleast not doing injustice or sin. Fear is unable to bring any such change in the soul. Theists believe in God, heaven and hell, but, still are doing sins. They think that worship or service (rituals) to God will neutralise their sins. This is totally a wrong concept. One will go to heaven for good deeds and will go to hell for bad deeds. Good deeds cannot neutralise any bad deed. Fruits are separate and you have to enjoy both the fruits separately. Unless, you are reformed totally, your bad deeds can't be cancelled. Reformation means not repeating the sin practically. Except this one way there is no other way that can cancel the sin. Such reformation can be attained by spiritual knowledge and devotion to God. Devotion to God means over attachment to God. By such over attachment, the family bonds will be atleast partially detached so that the sin can be controlled to some extent atleast. Devotion to God has it own super most result of getting the grace of God on the soul forever. When one reaches the climax of devotion to God all the family bonds are dropped naturally and spontaneously in internal way, which is real and total. In the path of Nivrutti, achievement of Pravrutti is just a side effect or a by-product.
In the absence of devotion to God, the fascination to family bonds can't be reduced by any other attraction. One can sympathize poor people, but can't be attracted by the poor people so that service can be done to them. The personality of God alone is attractive. In the attraction to personality of God, one does social service to poor people along with preaching spiritual knowledge and devotion so that God (to whom the devotees is very much attracted) is pleased. Such attraction alone is effective in doing the social service with real spirit. In absence of God, heaven and hell, so many questions will come. Why should I do social service to poor people? What is the benefit for me in doing the social service? If I don't help the poor what is the loss to me? If I loot the poor people and escape the law here with the help of tricks and advocates, what is the loss to me? All these questions will come even to the brain of ordinary level of intelligence. The policy of your relative is unable to give answer for any of these questions. Your relative is satisfied by saying that social service is not compulsory. But, does your relative agree that control of corruption is compulsory, in the absence of which, one day this entire society is cracked into pieces? When your relative agrees the existence of Creator, did the Creator simply created this world and left it to its own fate? Once anybody creates anything, it is the duty of the creator to maintain it. Even human beings create issues and do not leave them to their fate. They do proper administration and bring up their children to a perfect level with high responsibility. In such case, the Creator also has the responsibility to provide good administration to this world to keep the humanity in the correct line. Simply accepting the Creator is not sufficient. You must accept the Creator also to be the administrator. Otherwise, your relative is not at all different from an atheist, who does all the sins without belief in existence of God. You must accept the capability of administration also along with the existence of God. Then only you can be considered as a perfect theist.
Shri Durga Prasad asked:
2) Padanamaskaram Swami, You said that the punishment for sins is for transformation. In Gita, Krishna said the state of equal enjoyment of misery and happiness. But the purpose of punishment is lost by enjoyment of misery. Does it not mean that the state of equal enjoyment is the grace of God only for a transformed soul?
Please enlighten us. At your feet, Durgaprasad.
Swami Replied: Enjoying both comedy and tragedy is the characteristic of the Creator. There is nothing in the creation, which is not enjoyed by Him. The purpose of anything in the creation is only for the entertainment and enjoyment of God. One should not say that the suffering of a soul due to punishment is enjoyed by God-sadist. Sadist gives pain to another human being and enjoys it. God is not giving pain to any human being. The human being itself is responsible for its pain because of doing bad deeds in spite the spiritual knowledge given by God to this world.
In this context, your question is that when a sinner is undergoing punishment, the sinner should suffer with the punishment so that fear for sin is induced atleast temporarily. It is quite correct. Even if I say that one should enjoy the suffering and happiness with equal attitude of entertainment, the sinner will not reach that level because My advice is based on the basic detachment from the world. When you are seeing a cinema you are detached from it basically and hence you enjoy both tragedy and comedy with equal spirit. When the soul gets such detachment, it is highest state of reformation, which is almost equal to the state of God (in that one aspect only). A reformed soul of such high level will not do sins. If such state is attained, the reformation is really completed and all the sins of the sinner get cancelled. A person, who enjoys everything with such basic detachment, has attained the goal of reformation and need not be punished for sin anymore. Hence, such detached state is not possible for a sinner, which can be attained by perfect divine knowledge and devotion to God only. In the Gita, Krishna said that intense devotion to God based on perfect spiritual knowledge alone makes the soul not to do the sins (Bhajate maamananyabhaak...kshipram bhavati dharmaatmaa). Without the grace of God, such state of God can't be achieved by human effort. God's grace comes to you only when you are perfect in the spiritual knowledge to go in the correct path and develop full theoretical and practical devotion.
The producer and director is seeing His own cinema along with His peon. The Producer expects his peon also to enjoy the cinema like himself. If the peon is enjoying the cinema similar to director, it does not mean that the peon has become director and producer. Hence, enjoying the creation like God does not make the soul to become God in all aspects. Ofcourse, in this one aspect monism is achieved. In your question itself you have given the answer by saying that this refers only reformed soul and not every human being especially a sinner.
3) Padanamaskaram Swami, How to correlate 'Controlling grief and happiness to conserve energy' and 'Equal enjoyment of misery and happiness'.
One can enjoy equally a loss of 1 million rupees in business and a gain of 1 million rupees in lottery. But if it is controlled, there is no enjoyment at all.
At your Lotus feet, -Durgaprasad
Swami Replied: When you are detached basically and see the entire world like a cinema, are you not enjoying both tragedy and comedy in the cinema? When I said enjoyment of joy and grief, there are three words 1) Enjoyment, 2) Joy and 3) Grief. You should not mix the first two words and say that enjoyment of joy alone is enjoyment. You are enjoying the sweet and also hot in taking meals. You should not say that enjoyment alone is enjoyment of sweet and enjoyment of hot is not enjoyment. Enjoyment is a process that gives joy as the fruit. When the joy is enjoyed, here the joy is object and not fruit. Hence, joy is fruit as well as the object. The process 'enjoyment' becomes meaningful only when its fruit is joy. The joy as object and also the grief as object are not real for God just like the items of cinema. Hence, joy as fruit of the process of enjoyment alone is relatively real with respect to the unreal joy and grief (objects in the world). Because you are detached and because the objects are unreal, you are getting joy as the fruit of your enjoyment of both these objects. This indicates the state of God only. This state can be attained by you by the grace of God and you should not think that you have become really the God. Such monism only was spoken by Shankara. Monism in all other aspects is not present and the other aspects are creation of world, ruling the world and destruction of the world. But, by this single aspect of monism, you can be treated almost as God because the final goal of the creation is only enjoyment in this way. Hence, Shankara told that this can be treated as perfect monism. Shankara told that one can attain such monism in one aspect (which can be treated as total monism) only by the grace of God (Eshwaraanugrahadeva…). To get the grace of God, you should respect the dualism and think that you are servant of God till you get that grace. After getting this type of monism with God also, you should continue in dualism only thinking that you are still the servant of God because you have not attained all the other aspects. One should be careful always before attaining this state and also after attaining this state. Joy is only in that state granted by God and not in any created item of the world. Real joy is only in God that can be given to you by Him. With the help of this joy you enjoy this unreal world. Such joy alone is permanent. The momentary joy you derive from this world is not permanent and is turning to grief in the very next moment. Eternal enjoyment is the characteristic of God that is to be granted to you by the grace of God. When such state is not attained, the joy is only limited to the objects, which disappears shortly because every item of the world is temporary, though not unreal for the soul. The world is real for the soul and hence the enjoyment of the soul is limited to the objects of the world, which are changing from time to time.
Shri Anil asked:
4) Padanamaskaram Swami, Kindly give Your responses to verses from Bible as given below
A person asked the following question
"It is said that Jesus died on the cross for our sins. Why should Jesus suffer when he, as an omnipotent God could have just forgiven our sins by will?" Kindly give Your response to it.
Swami Replied: The main aspect is not to forgive the past sins of a reformed soul. The main point is to make the human being not to repeat the sin in future. Cancellation of past sins is done only to those devotees, who are reformed by the crucifixion of Jesus. It is told in the Bible that He came to save His people. The word 'His people' mean the devotees, who can get the reformation from the crucifixion (due to sympathy for His suffering the sins of devoted souls) and the spiritual knowledge of Jesus. He did not come to save all the people. The meaning of the crucifixion is only to save you if you are not repeating the sin from today onwards since all your past sins are excused and cancelled by God. The person, who repeats the sin, is not affected by the crucifixion or by the preaching of Jesus. If you are reformed, your sins are cancelled because God suffers for all your sins. This is the meaning of crucifixion. Crucifixion applies only to the people, who are reformed after crucifixion. Such devotees only are His people, who are saved by Him. The past sins of a reformed soul are suffered by God to satisfy the deity of justice. God wrote the constitution and prescribed the punishments for sins. How can He cancel the punishments just by will? Ofcourse, He can cancel. But, immediately people will say that God is a mad administrator since He frames the rule and cancels it immediately!
To Be Continued …