QA:4-8

(Some of my friends, who are atheists, have asked these questions on sweet devotion and related topics. I have sent those questions to H.H. Shri Datta Swami, who has answered these questions. - Ms. Thrylokya)

4. Why did not the 12 Gopikas get the association of real form of Krishna?

[Ms. Thrylokya asked:- Swami, You told that unreal Krishnas were dancing with all the Gopikas during the test of Daareshanaa. But, 12 Gopikas passed all the three tests and attained Goloka as reward. Since they are not married-women anymore, why didn’t they get the association of real form of Krishna in Goloka?]

Swami replied:- The soul does not change after leaving the gross body on the earth. Whatever objection is there for soul and God in this world, the same objection will apply to the same soul and same God even in the upper world. The objection is based on the concept that God is the giver of seed to the womb of Prakruti (nature/creation) and becomes the Father of all souls as said in the Gita (Ahaṃ bījapradaḥ pitā…). Gopikas are created souls becoming a part (child) of Prakruti-Mother since the soul is Paraa Prakruti and the body of soul is Aparaa Prakruti (Mayā'dhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ… - Gita). Actually, God and Maayaa are one and the same since power and possessor of power are one and the same. As per the will of God, the power called Maayaa creates the creation so that God is not modified as creation. This can be illustrated by an example. Sun and sunlight are qualitatively one and the same since both are heat and light only. But, the sunlight is trapped by scientists to convert it into electrical power. Since the sunlight is converted into electrical power, the sun is not converted into electrical power. Here, the qualitative oneness between possessor of power and power is true (Māyāṃ tu prakṛtiṃ viddhi…) and at the same time, the power can be modified but not the possessor of power because the possessor of power and the power differ in quantitative aspect of light and heat. Sun is very highly concentrated light and heat and hence, cannot be trapped to be converted into electricity by scientific equipment.

The modified power becoming further creation continues the process of creation like two souls (parents) producing children. In this context also, the Prakruti or creation will be able to continue the process of creation as per the will of God. In this continued process of creation, Prakruti (product of Kaarya Maayaa Shakti) is involved. In the beginning process of creation, Kaarana Maayaa Shakti is involved. Maayaa is the causal-power (Kaarana Shakti/Kaarana Brahma) and Prakruti is the product-power (Kaarya Shakti/Kaarya Brahma). Hence, God-Father cannot have union with soul-children according to the divine justice. But, God being omnipotent created His illusory forms to honour the climax devotion of Gopikas. He gave satisfaction to them as they desired and also protected the justice. This possibility cannot be with any soul except God. There is the saying that neither stick is broken nor serpent is killed. Moreover, the soul does not know this concept of illusory Krishnas. Even if it knows, by the power of Maayaa of real Krishna, the soul will forget it. God can bring the memory or can remove the memory due to His power of Maayaa as said in the Gita (Mattaḥ smṛtir jnñāna mapohanaṃ ca…, Mama māyā duratyayā…).

5. The book 'Gopika Giitikaavali' is a proof that Krishna is not a celibate at least theoretically. What do You say?

[Swami, You are now telling that Krishna is a celibate in all angles. But, in Your own poetry book of  'Gopika Giitikaavali', You wrote that Lord Krishna possessed You to express His love to Gopikas through songs, which was hidden in Him so far. Every poem in the book exposes an ocean of romantic love that God Krishna has on Gopikas. Isn't this a perfect practical proof that God Krishna is not a celibate at least in theoretical (mind and words) phase? When Your devotee, Shri Phani, placed his hand on Your heart to find out the truth, immediately, his hand was burnt deeply and became red hot. This is the best practical proof that God Krishna had romantic feelings towards Gopikas. I am right in saying that Krishna is not a celibate. Here, the context is theoretical phase (mind and words). You are also right in saying that Krishna is a celibate. Here, the context is practical phase (actions of kissing, hugging and sex), which can be explained by Your theory of illusory forms created by God. With these two points, we can end this debate with a win-win conclusion. What do You say?]

Swami replied:- A coloured glass cup contains colourless white milk. This white milk attains the colour of the cup when you see from outside. This colour is unreal from the point of the white colour of the milk. True love (milk) towards devotees belongs to God and the colour of the cup belongs to the path of devotion of the soul. Real Krishna is the white milk and the illusory Krishna is the coloured milk to satisfy the soul that God is also involved in the same chosen path of the soul (This means that the medium of the real Krishna, which is other than the unimaginable God and is called as real Krishna is exactly similar to the medium of illusory Krishna having the same name and form, similar gross body, similar individual soul and similar antahkaranams. Hence, Gopika is not cheated in any way by the real Krishna so that her thinking that she met with the real Krishna is perfectly true and in this case, the unimaginable God is not at all involved. In the case of union of the real Krishna with Radha, even if the unimaginable God is involved in the union through the real Krishna, such involvement is not experienced by the fully ignorant Radha, who becomes equal to Gopika in this point also. Radha is covered with full ignorance since she has to stick in the role of devotee without any deviation to stand as an example for other devotees.).

In every worldly bond, the practical sacrifice or true love (milk) is only tested. The test for spouse bond is like the final formal physical fitness test and the previous written IAS examination is like the real test, passing in which alone allows the candidate to attend the final formal test. Suppose a failed candidate in the written examination somehow entered the final formal test and topped the final formal test. Even then, the interview committee will reject such candidate because the selection of the candidate is based on the written examination only and not on the final formal test (This example is an assumption only.). Such a false case must be eliminated and even the entry into the final formal test must be denied to such false candidate. If you are referring to the passed candidates in the written examination, the final formal test is very much insignificant. The physical fitness is not that much important for an IAS Officer, who is required to show his/her intelligence in the administration. Of course, this does not mean that you should appoint the IAS Officer as the administrator since he/she is the topper in the written examination even though the candidate is suffering with T.B. and cancer always lying on the bed of the hospital! Such a candidate is like a devotee, who has defeated all the worldly bonds for the sake of God except the bond with his/her spouse. Shri Ramanujaacaarya reformed such a devotee fascinated to the eyes of his spouse by showing the eyes of God having the real brilliance of true spiritual knowledge!

The songs in Gopika Giitikavali show the real love of Krishna towards the devotees rewarding their true love proved in the form of real practical sacrifice, which is common to the devotee of any path like passing the written examination. This pure white milk (love of God) is put in the glass cup having a specific colour of sweet devotion followed by the devoted Gopikas. This same love when placed in another path of devotion, which has a different colour based on the specific nature of the path will assume the colour of that path. Hence, in those poems, God said that even if Hanuman comes in the form of a female monkey, He will embrace her with the deepest love because true love is important for God and not the temporary physical beauty. At several places, this point is stressed. If the sweet devotion is based on the physical beauty and not on the real sacrificial love, such a sweet devotion becomes only the pacification of temporary beastly lust. God Krishna said that He is the Yogi Raja Datta knowing the real background of Yoga or union of soul with God.

These songs written on Gopikas came from the heart of real Krishna in which the theoretical romance is also fully presented. The objection to this statement is that how the assumed Father, real Krishna, expressed such theoretical romantic love even on the assumed daughters like Gopikas? The answer for this doubt is that Krishna sang these songs thinking Radha as the Gopika in His mind since Radha is also a Gopika. No Gopika is Radha, but, Radha is a Gopika because she is born in the family of cowherds. Real Krishna stands as guide for the illusory Krishna in this type of expression of love as the reply. Hence, real Krishna is not involved in romance with Gopikas by action, word or feeling. The miracle experienced by Shri Phani Kumar stands as the proof for the true love of real Krishna to Radha in actual sense and the same can stand as the proof of the true love of illusory Krishnas to Gopikas.

6. This book says that Datta loves Gopikas more than Vaani, Lakshmi and Gouri. Does this not prove that Krishna is not a celibate?

[If You say that God Krishna sang the songs of Gopikaa Giitikaavali thinking Radha only, some lines of those songs contradict Your statement because they say that Krishna loves Gopikas only more than Radha. Adding to that, they also say that God Datta loves Gopikas more than Vaani, Lakshmi and Gouri. Doesn’t this prove that Krishna is not a celibate?]

Swami replied:- These statements of real Krishna are purely Arthavaadas (beneficial meritorious lies) to encourage Gopikas in their path. Radha, being on the side of the staff, cannot be treated as the student. If necessary, a good teacher sacrifices even his status and dignity to tell an Arthavaada in order to encourage his students for their success in the examination. Gopika is thinking real Krishna as real Krishna only and is thinking illusory Krishna as real Krishna in the context of romance of sweet devotion. Hence, even the real Krishna can tell this Arthavaada (that the Gopika is greater than every devotee) to a Gopika, which is repeated by the illusory Krishna. Here, the general love of the real Krishna towards the general love of any devotee including Gopikas can be referred in this Arthavaada. If anywhere, the romantic feeling comes in any poem or even in any line of a poem towards a Gopika, it will be related to an illusory Krishna only. Whenever the romantic poems or lines are sung on Gopikas in Gopikaa Giitikaavali, the real Krishna disappears immediately with the appearance of illusory Krishna and this transformation cannot be caught either by human eyes or even by very much sophisticated electronic instruments. God takes care everywhere because He is omnipotent and not a less potent soul to commit any trace of mistake even at a minute place even for a fraction of a second. God is very much conscious about even an atom of justice and the functions of consciousness (including that He is the assumed Father of Gopikas) exist in God all the time due to His omnipotence even if awareness is absent (consciousness is only a part of awareness).

7. Are the twelve passed Gopikas, the partial incarnations of Anaghaa?

[Swami, You often address Gopika as Anaghaa in Your poetry book 'Gopi Giitalu' in Telugu that is translated by You into English as 'Gopika Giitikaavali'. Are the 12 passed Gopikas the partial incarnations (Amsha Avataara) of Goddess Anaghaa only?]

Swami replied:- Anaghaa is the wife of God Datta and is also called as Madhumati. Anaghaa means sinless. Madhumati means fascinated to sweet devotion of God. By the meanings of these two words, there is a similarity between the Divine Mother Anaghaa and Gopikas. Gopikas are just human sages. Most of them failed in practical sacrifice of the two strong worldly bonds (children and wealth) especially knowing very well that Krishna is God. The twelve Gopikas are the excellent sages, who are like the candidates passing in both written IAS test and final formal physical fitness test in which (final formal test) all other Gopikas also passed. We can say that Radha is the incarnation of Anaghaa in all real sense. Radha broke justice since she left her husband for the sake of God and also did not break justice since she neither touched her husband nor allowed her husband to touch her after marriage. She was dedicated to God and did total sacrifice with total surrender to God crossing even the fascination for children, in which point alone majority of the sages failed. For the sake of Arthavaada, we can say that the twelve Gopikas are partly incarnations (Amsha avataaraas) of the Divine Mother, Goddess Anaghaa.

8. You told Chandralekhaa as an incarnation of Satii, which means the incarnation of Anaghaa. Is it an Arthavaada?

[Swami, You once told about one of the 12 Gopikas named Chandralekhaa as an incarnation of Goddess Satii, meaning the incarnation of Anaghaa only (Ref.:- Click here for the link). Is that also an Arthavaada?]

Swami replied:- I praised Chandralekhaa as the power of the power Radha and also a real form like Radha and Rukmini. We must praise the topmost devotees as God Himself to appreciate their topmost achievement. One Brahma Suutra says that based on their wonderful achievement, we must see such devotees as God (Brahma dṛṣti rutkarṣāt). Since this is told by one of the three pious scriptures of Hinduism (Prasthaanatrayam), you need not take it as Arthavaada since scriptural sanction exists. Arthavaada can be created by any preacher in a suitable context to encourage the student. But, the case of Chandralekhaa is more than Arthavaada and she is greater than even Satii because the heart attack was spontaneous in the separation from God. Satii is almost equal to her because she was not forced to be separated from God Shiva like Chandralekhaa. On hearing even the criticism of God Shiva, she committed suicide. Hence, both are almost equal in different angles of the situation since the situation is not exactly the same in both cases. Praising a soul as God based on the wonderful value of its devotion to God is not wrong at all. The reverse, which is blaming God as the lower soul is sin. You can call the peon as collector, but, you shall not call the collector as peon! Chandralekhaa did not commit forcible suicide like Satii. When she was obstructed by her family members to meet Krishna, due to the pain, she got spontaneous heart attack and died. This is just like the wife leaving her life as soon as she hears the death of her husband and this is the real Satii Sahagamanam, which does not mean forcibly throwing the wife into the funeral fire of her husband.

We must take the stories of Chandralekhaa and Satii as spiritual advices to devotees and not in the real sense as actors. Chandralekhaa is originally a sage of highest order and is acting in a role to convey a spiritual lesson about the devotion to God. She was obstructed by her family members to go to God and in that pain, she collapsed. This happened in the beginning of the 2^nd year of Raasa dance of Krishna. Therefore, even though we say that Krishna tested the spouse-bond for two years by dancing in Brundaavanam, actually, that dance took 1 year only since the dance in the 2^nd year was stopped by Krishna due to the death of Chandralekhaa. Of course, the spouse-bond test also did not require 2^nd year because all the Gopikas passed the test in the 1^st year itself! Her message is that mere theoretical devotion without any daring step of practical side will not take the soul to God. She went to Tapo Loka and gained further courage through extended penance for God and then only, she reached Brahma Loka and then finally Goloka, becoming one of the twelve successful Gopikas. This is the same lesson given by Satii Devi through her role. She teaches that practical step shall be taken to answer a sinner like her father and self-immolation is not the correct step. Of course, Chandralekhaa did not commit suicide, but died due to the heart attack resulting in the pain of separation from God enforced by her family members. Her preaching is that excess of theoretical devotion that brings heart attack or madness is of no use and the devotee shall always be with balanced mind (Sthitaprajna) to take the single practical step instead of taking thousand theoretical steps. In both cases, the absence of some courage to enter the practical step is seen. Therefore, the third and final step called Karma Yoga is the most important step to get success in the spiritual effort. Mere sticking to the first two theoretical steps (Jnaana Yoga and Bhakti Yoga) yields no result and sometimes, results in suicide!